Rough Edge: Interview with Jonny Santos, April 2006

REBIRTH OF A MUSICIAN
An Interview with Jonny Santos of SILENT CIVILIAN

Interview by Snidermann with R. Scott Bolton
April 2006

It wasn't easy for Jonny Santos to leave Spineshank, especially since it had only been two weeks since the popular band had been nominated for a Grammy Award. But he felt the need to move on and Spineshank wasn't offering him the opportunities he needed to grow. So Jonny walked away and, although it took some time and lots of effort, he's finally returned to the world of rock'n'roll with his new outfit, Silent Civilian.

With their new CD, "Rebirth of the Temple," just out, and the band on the road in support of the new disc, Jonny invited us into his tour RV where he took about an hour of his obviously valuable time to introduce us to his dog, Bacchus, and talk with us about Spineshank, life after Spineshank and, of course, Silent Civilian.

Rough Edge: How are the Spineshank fans reacting to Silent Civilian?

Jonny Santos: They’re reacting very well to it. I mean, the kids are so supportive. I think since Spineshank is pretty much over and the other guys haven’t really got their project off the ground, this kind of gives something for the hardcore Spineshank fans out there. And they’ve been really receptive to it. The kids have evolved as well, with their musical tastes, too. Every night, I get kids coming up to me saying, “Wow, I love Spineshank, but this is so much more evolved and so much better.” I mean, every night. I get constant e-mails form the fans going, “Wow, Jonny, I can’t believe you came out with this. You came out blazin’.” I mean, it’s been really, really good for me. I can’t say that we’ve had any, any negative energy from any of the Spineshank fans out there, at all. Whatsoever. If there is, I haven’t heard it.

Rough Edge: How different is it for you, doing this as opposed to what you were doing with Spineshank?

Jonny Santos: It’s a completely different world for me. The only thing that’s probably the same in this band is my voice. Everything else -- the direction of the music, the style of the music, I’m playing guitar now. I try to bring something totally, completely new to the table. I didn’t just want to do Spineshank 2. I wanted to really re-invent myself as an artist in the metal community, man. I just wanted to start a thrash band. I played guitar for thirteen years before I ever sang a note, you know? I was the original guitar player from the original conception of Spineshank. I ended up becoming the singer and guitar player to just the singer.

Rough Edge: Which do you prefer?

Jonny Santos: You know what? Guitar’s always been my first love, but I was, I guess, either blessed or cursed with the talent to sing as well. I don’t think I could really choose either one or the other, anymore. I know I’m much happier playing guitar, but I don’t think I could ever go back to just playing guitar. My heroes are Dave Mustaine, James Hetfield, Robb Flynn, you know, guys like that. I don’t really care about the whole front man thing, anymore, being able to jump around like a monkey and all that stuff. What I care about is the actual musicianship of the band and, as a songwriter, you know, I wrote so much of the music in Spineshank, with this band I was just so hands-on with everything. I wanted two guitar players, I’ve always wanted to have two guitar players in Spineshank; we never did. And now, I can have that. But I don’t want to have twenty people in the band, either. With this band, I’m playing guitar, we’ve got another guitar player and I’m just going to leave it at that. I don’t mind having five guys in the band, but why fix it if it’s not broken? We’re here, we’re there, have gear will travel. And I think it’s bringing something new to the kids, too. Because they come up to me and they say, “Wow! Jonny knows how to shred? Where the hell did that come from? How could you get that good that fast?” And, I’m all, “Well, let me tell you something...”

Rough Edge: We’ve been listening to the new songs on your MySpace page (http://www.myspace.com/silentcivilian) and we’ve been listening to them a lot. My favorite is "Falling Down."

Jonny Santos: That to me, is straight up as thrash as it can get. That, to me, is straight up thrash metal. I wanted to build a modern thrash band. You know, there’s a lot of metalcore bands out there right now but not a lot of guys who are doing the old punk beats, you know, with heavy guitar riffs, and that’s kind of what thrash was. You look at bands like Exodus and Testament, and old Metallica and Megadeth and that’s what thrash was. It’s like a fusion of punk beats and metal riffs. And that’s kind of what I really wanted to bring back.

Rough Edge: There seems to be a resurgence of classic thrash.

Jonny Santos. Oh, totally. Death Angel was probably my most favorite band when I was a kid. And Ted Aguilar hit me up on MySpace with like, “Dude, I love your band,” and I was like, “Dude, I worship your band!” And Craig from Forbidden, a good friend of mine. You know, people are trying to get a Forbidden reunion tour going and I told him, “Dude, you should so do it,” All we gotta do is get Vio-Lence back for a reunion tour! I think all these kids out there these days are getting into it and I think it’s because of their parents. I think it’s their parents. These kids are coming home with all this crap music and their parents are all, “No, listen to this, man.” Iron Maiden! I don’t know how else these kids are finding out about these bands from twenty years ago. I just went and saw Kreator in Springfield. 800 capacity, shoulder-to-shoulder kids. The place was packed. And Kreator was amazing. They were fucking amazing. I think the last time I saw Kreator I was probably about 13.

Rough Edge: So have you been in touch with your old bandmates?

Jonny Santos: Actually, yeah. Just recently, as a matter of fact. I ran into Rob at NAB and I talked to him for awhile for the first time in about two years. Rob and I never really had any problems. We’ve always gotten along. With Tommy, well, obviously, we had our personal differences but, you know, me leaving was pretty amicable. I think the dust is starting to settle a little bit. The guys were at the show last night, at the House of Blues. And I talked to them, talked to Rob a little bit. Didn’t really talk to the other guys. It’s kind of a “Hey, what’s up,” and a “Hey’s what’s up” kind of a thing. I think the dust is still settling between me and them. I wish them all the best of luck and success in whatever those guys do. For me, Spineshank had definitely ran its course. And I wasn’t havin’ fun anymore. And why play music if you’re not having fun?

Rough Edge: Why do anything?

Jonny Santos: Yeah. You know, for me, that’s why I wanted to be a rock star ... or whatever you want to call it. I want to make my living having fun, playing on stage every night. I’m a singer. I love it. I love seeing the fans out there having a great time and I love entertaining them, you know? When you don’t have fun doing that anymore, and you’re not happy with the direction your band is going in, shit, you might as well go home and swing a hammer, you know?

Rough Edge: Tell us a little about the new CD.

Jonny Santos: I made a very conscious effort to not rip kids off. This will be no twenty-five, thirty minute record. You’re getting over an hour’s worth of music, you’re getting a music video, you’ll get a ten minute documentary on the making of it. The way I see it, is if a kid’s going to save up his lunch money all week long to buy my CD when it comes out, spend sixteen to eighteen dollars, I want to make sure that that kid got what he pays for. You know what I’m saying? I don’t think it’s fair for bands to put out thirty minute records and get away with it. I think it’s a rip off. All my old albums are close to that long. I used to save my lunch money all week ... I remember buying “And Justice For All” when it came out. And, dude, that record’s timeless. When you stick it in, by the time it’s over, you’re two sheets to the wind and it’s worth the money that you pay. I think that’s one of the reasons that there’s so much downloading going on, because the record company’s prices are too high, and once it goes from the label to the distributor to the record store, you know, the kid’s going, “Oh, my God, I’m going to pay $20 for a half hour’s worth of music!” So I figure I’m not going to do that. It got to the point where I had to keep one song off the record because there wasn’t enough room to put it on. I told them, “Make it happen,” and they told me “Impossible. We can’t make it happen.” It’s important to me. The last thing I want to be known for is ripping off kids. That’s not what I’m out here to do.

Rough Edge: So what’d you do with that song?

Jonny Santos: Wait until next time or we might do like a re-mix album or an EP or something. Toward the end of the year, we’re doing an EP that’s basically a tribute to all the old Bay Area thrash bands. It’s going to be Silent Civilian covers fuckin’ Exodus, Metallica, Megadeth, Kreator, whatever. We’ve already recorded a Death Angel song. We’re gonna do that so maybe I’ll throw that extra song on as a bonus track. Because when we go home to do the record, I want to put something out for the kids while we’re doing down time. The first record’s not even out and I’m already tired!!

Rough Edge: So did how did your experiences with Spineshank help you in not only dealing with the musical side of it but the business side?

Jonny Santos: As far as the business side of it, I think Spineshank taught me what not to do. I made some really conscious decisions when I negotiated the deal for this record and I didn’t go after the big production money and all that crap. I mean, how am I ever going to recoup? When am I ever gonna see something? I mean, I’m married and have two kids.

Rough Edge: And a dog.

Jonny Santos: Yes, and two dogs. So I gotta be smart about it. I mean, I’m not out here in a bus. I’m out in an RV and, actually, I think I should be in a van right now. But with the wife and the dog and with Logan (Mader, producer) ... Logan's just an amazing guy. He discovered the band and he was like, “I gotta do this. I gotta do this record.” And he did the demo for us and it came out slammin’. And then he was, “I gotta do this record, Jonny. I have to do this record.” You know, Logan said himself, that for 2005, it was more fun and more of a pleasure making this record than anything he’s ever done before. That’s how well we work together. Logan’s already lined up exclusively to do the next two records. We work that well together. And we’re even talking about possibly doing the next record overseas, in New Zealand or Australia something. Why not, man? We got the budget, let’s go do it. Let’s go hang out and not be bothered by people every day. Let’s go rent a house up in the middle of extreme sports land and just have at it. Yeah, Logan is awesome. Lucas Baker co-produced the record with Logan as well and I just got to get his name out there, because he needs the credit. He really went above and beyond when it went to working with me vocal-wise, just an amazing guy. Logan and Lucas, that was the team. You know, we kinda worked together like a family. I engineered a little bit of the record, I co-produced as well. It was so hands on, everything.

Rough Edge: What does Silent Civilian mean? How did that name come about?

Jonny Santos: I’ve always been a pretty opinionated person, as far as speaking out about things that I believe in. With the climate of world issues and national issues, I think there’s so many people out there that have opinion but are scared to speak half the time because they’re afraid of what society is telling them or what our world leaders are telling us to think and nobody wants to be the odd man out or be called unpatriotic or “you’re a traitor.” I think that’s a huge problem because so many friends of mine, I’ll say, “I didn’t know you felt that way,” and they’ll say, “Yeah, I sure do.” and I’ll ask them, “Well, did you vote?” And they’ll say, “Nah, it doesn’t change anything.” I think a huge part of our society today in America are a bunch of silent civilians and we just let people force feed us and tell us what to think and we must believe everything we see and read and people aren’t trying to form opinions for themselves anymore and they’re not really trying to use this up here and use their own intuition. For better or for worse, have your own opinion and stand behind it. And tell us where you stand. And I think if people did that we might see a lot of changes. Unfortunately, I don’t really see that happening over the past couple of years.

Rough Edge: Do you address that in your lyrics?

Jonny Santos: Oh, yeah. I never set out for this band to be a political band, we’re a thrash metal band. But, you know, I touch on certain subjects. “Master of Puppets” and “And Justice for All” both had a lot of political shit going on, but they weren’t a political band. And it’s kind of the same thing I’m doing. I’ve got several songs that do speak politically about, you know, what’s going on but then I have songs about empowerment and self-preservation and the will to live and, hey, songs about life. And then I have two songs on the record that are just straight hate. Gotta have a couple of those, too. I didn’t want to set a solid tone, lyrically, for the record. I wanted it to be very colorful, I wanted it to be a roller coaster. I wanted to have positive, negative, you know, yin and yang, all around. Because I believe that certain songs create a mood to a listener. When they feel a certain way, they want to listen to this song or "that song’s gonna make me feel better." “Falling Down,” on the new record, you know what that song’s about? It’s about the actual movie with Michael Douglas. It’s about a guy who just fuckin’ snaps, and I wrote the song about that guy and that song’s appropriately titled “Falling Down.” I really had fun with the record and I really wanted to go somewhere with it. I just really hope people enjoy it and really kinda get where we’re going with it. It’s just a great combination of so many different things and it all comes down to just some fucking blazing guitars and fast drums.

Rough Edge: How was it starting the new band after Spineshank split up?

Jonny Santos: It was fucking hard. When I left Spineshank - you gotta remember, when I left the band, I basically walked away from a career. I just got nominated for a Grammy two weeks before. People were like, “What are you doing?” And I was telling them, “Dude, this isn’t right for me.” So, obviously, I left and I left with nothing. And I was practically homeless at the time, sleeping on couches at friend’s houses, going through a divorce – how funny, you quit the band and you get divorced. I don’t know how that works, but I guess that’s how it works! I lost everything and it was like crazy and I had to spend the first year basically getting myself together. And I had to change a lot of things about myself and it was really, actually, the best thing I could have done. It humbled the shit out of me. Because for the better part of my late teens and early 20s, that was all I knew. Everything was done for me. Every day. "Here ya go, Jonny, whatever you want." "Get on stage, Jonny." And I think that doing what I had to do after I left Spineshank was really difficult. It planted my feet solid and I was like, “Wow, this is reality, setting in.” I mean, I never had a regular job since I was nineteen years old. I was like, “Whattaya mean, I gotta work?” Not only that, getting into my late 20s, I was like “Whoa, I gotta do something here.” I was learning about this “life is short” kinda thing, you know? So, I got down on myself and then my girlfriend at the time, now my wife, she would tell me, “You know, Jonny, you’re better than this. You’ve got so much left in you. You’re such a talented person. What are you doing? You’re just wasting it.” And, of course, I was like, “Oh, it’s over. It’s over!” And she was like, “You’re fucking crazy. Got for it!" So, as soon as I felt comfortable and I cleaned myself up and I got back on my feet, put a little money in the bank to pay bills (because I knew I was going to be leaving that job), I said, “Okay, I’m going to start a new band and I’m going to start a band with all new guys." I don’t want to start a band with known musicians. I don’t want to do that. I don’t’ want to get the bass player from so and so and the drummer from this band, because that’s just kind of transparent, to me. I didn’t want people to think, “Oh, Jonny’s just trying to fuckin’ cash in.” I wanted to find new guys, hungry guys, talented guys. And I started the band on January 2nd, 2005 and this is where I’m at now. I’ve got my guys together. Chris, my drummer, and I, basically built the entire foundation. We wrote and wrote every night. I almost got a divorce again. We were in the studio, every night, every night, every night, every night. And, having the studio in my house didn’t make anything easier. And we wrote and wrote. We probably wrote thirty songs in the end, fifteen of which got recorded, thirteen which actually made it on the record. We worked really, really hard on this, we had a great team behind us, between the label and management and our producers and, now that the record’s done, everyone’s asking me, “Jonny, where’d this come from?” And I tell them, “It came from here.” The label assembled us a really good team for us afterwards. Scott Culver directed the video for “Rebirth of the Temple,” Maria Ferrero and Adrenaline PR as publicists, KOCH for distribution, It’s amazing, KOCH is so behind the record right now. James, the sales representative. We have this team of super-excited people. Now, I’m glad I made the decisions I made. Now it’s all come full circle. But I had to work hard for it. I had to hit the bottom before I could start my way back to the top again. And I’m telling you, this is one of the hardest working bands ever and these guys are just loving it, they’re living for it. And I couldn’t be happier. I don’t know if it’s because I’m a little older, a little wiser or a little dumber - I don’t know – but I’ve never been as happy as an artist. I mean, I could give a rat’s ass if this album sells a quarter of what Spineshank did. I feel that this is the best thing that I’ve ever done. I’m not going to say it’s the heaviest thing I’ve ever done ... but it is the heaviest thing I’ve ever done. It’s definitely heavier than Spineshank, but it’s a different kind of band. But I could die tomorrow knowing that I made the record that I always wanted to make. The hard part is now, how do I top it?

Rough Edge: So what’s going to happen to all those great Spineshank songs?

Jonny Santos: Well, you know. People ask me, “Are you guys going to do Spineshank songs?” And, at first, I thought about it and then I decided against it. And I’ll tell you why: A) I think that for me to go out there and do a Spineshank song isn’t fair to the guys in my band and also I think it’d be saying Silent Civilian is riding on the coattails of Spineshank. And I don’t want that. This band is good enough to stand on its own two feet and, if we were to play a Spineshank song, it wouldn’t be Spineshank. People ask what it would take to get me to do a Spineshank song. Well, if you were to somehow get me on stage with the guys in Spineshank, that’s what it would take. Are those guys gonna do Spineshank songs? I don’t know. But the only way I would ever do it, if I was actually on stage with those guys again. And I don’t really see that happening any time soon. And I don’t think Spineshank was every big enough for us to have a reunion tour twenty years from now. Spineshank was a huge part of my life, I don’t regret one day of being in the band. If I would have stayed in the band, that’s when I think I would have started having regrets. It was a huge thing to happen for me, and Spineshank had to happen for this to happen. People will ask me, “Don’t you hate Spineshank?” And the answer is no, I don’t hate Spineshank. That was my band for eight, nine years. I started that band in 96, and it ran until 2003.

Rough Edge: It’s nice to hear that because so often you hear, “Screw those guys, I don’t want to have anything to do with them.”

Jonny Santos: Spineshank was what gave me my name in the first place. If Spineshank never happened, and I just came out with Silent Civilian right now, it might be a completely different story. People know the name, Jonny Santos, and they’re “Oh, shit. This is Jonny Santos’ new project." The marketing plan: "Jonny Santos, formerly of Spineshank." There’s a story there. I’m reminded of it every day that I was in Spineshank so long and it doesn’t bother me at all. I have nothing bad to say about that band whatsoever. I had the fucking time of my life. Twenty-one years old? Single? On the road? Come on! Give me a fucking break! I might have had a little too much fun!

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